Bass Technique Forum
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Welcome to the Forum! The point of this page is to allow bassists everywhere, at any level, to ask questions and express opinions about bass technique. I will endeavour to respond to messages as quickly as possible, but I want this to be considered an open forum; everyone has a valid point of view. Through writing and promoting Essential Bass Technique, I've discovered that there are many active issues related to bass technique, and I'd like this site to provide a way for discussion of these issues to take place. We can all learn from this! Please keep the discussions on track, make your subject headings specific and concise, visit often and spread the word! Thanks for visiting and please make yourself known. Cheers, Peter Murray

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Thu, Aug 26 2004
funk bass
53 Responses (last posting: Sat, Jul 19 2008)

hey its me again thanks for all the good tips. i lowered my pickups a bit but i occasionally still get the thunk so i figure that im slapping too hard but i think im getting...
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Fri, Jul 18 2008
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Tue, Oct 28 2003
Fieldy Techniques
28 Responses (last posting: Sun, Jul 13 2008)

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Fri, Jul 11 2008
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4 Responses (last posting: Wed, Jul 9 2008)

Hi Peter, I like your site. My question is about pain from playing. I've been playing off and on for many years. In the past couple years, left shoulder pain has become unbearable, and...
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Tue, Jul 8 2008
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Thu, May 5 2005
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11 Responses (last posting: Mon, Jul 7 2008)

Anybody know what technique(s)Ryan Martinie uses?? I saw the video for Happy? and on the choruses he seems to be tapping with his right hand on the fretboard...
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Wed, Jul 2 2008
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Fri, Aug 18 2006
Great bass guitarists
32 Responses (last posting: Mon, Jun 30 2008)

I just started playing bass. What are some great famous bassists that I could listen to to get me started? I know Sheehan, Squire, Tony Grey...what are some others?
Corina
Thu, Jun 26 2008
Bass Fingerin
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Sat, Oct 25 2003
sweaty hands
23 Responses (last posting: Wed, Jun 11 2008)

My hands get sweaty almost everytime I play. any advice? This kinda makes my technique sloppy.
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Tue, Jun 10 2008
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Fri, Sep 30 2005
Vibration
11 Responses (last posting: Tue, Jun 10 2008)

I have been playing bass for a little while and sometimes i'll get an irritating vibration buzz from the strings. Is this because i am pressing to hard?
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Tue, Jun 3 2008
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Wed, Jul 4 2007
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Thu, Jan 21 1999
Slap Technique Question
2 Responses (last posting: Tue, May 27 2008)

Peter, I've found your forum and all of your information to be very informative. I was wondering...I'm trying to incorporate a nice controlled light slap into my playing style....
G
Wed, Oct 13 2004
Active / Passive Pickups.
5 Responses (last posting: Tue, May 27 2008)

Hey all. I really do apologise if this is not what is meant to appear in the forum, but I posted recently about slap tone, and I was introduced to the concept of passive / active...
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Mon, May 19 2008
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Thu, Sep 21 2006
Thumb Rest Position
5 Responses (last posting: Sat, May 10 2008)

Hey. Why do some electric basses have their thumb rest below the G String? I would think it makes more sense above the E string.
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Sat, Dec 11 2004
slap bass
47 Responses (last posting: Tue, May 6 2008)

hi, Does anyone know what the fastest slap bass line is?
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Sun, May 4 2008
A couple tone/style mysteries
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Thu, Jun 1 2006
Funk Composition
3 Responses (last posting: Sat, Apr 19 2008)

Hey Guys! Just wondering if anyone knows what funk bass is composed of? Since there is no real funk scale, what makes funk, funk? I was told that it's really a mixture of other...
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Thu, Mar 11 1999
left hand tension
3 Responses (last posting: Fri, Apr 18 2008)

I have been playing off and on for about a year now and have learned alot from your book. However, I am unsure how hard to press against the strings with my fret hand.
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Mon, Apr 14 2008
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Wed, Mar 7 2007
Bass tutorials!
1 Response (last posting: Thu, Mar 27 2008)

Heya guys, check out some of my bass tutorials at www.dmanlamius.com... They are linked to youtube, so you can see exactly what i'm doing. Take care! Kris.
Greg
Tue, Jan 18 2005
Hammer(Rest) Stroke?
5 Responses (last posting: Wed, Mar 26 2008)

Hey all, i've been playing bass for about 3 years now and im 17. I was just wondering, is it absolutely necessary to use the hammerstroke. I use my fingers but when i strike the...
Maxwellmurderer
Sat, Apr 2 2005
Three finger bass playing?
12 Responses (last posting: Wed, Mar 26 2008)

Can anyone give me a link to a lesson on using three fingers for bass playing?
d_ax_loe
Sun, Jan 19 2003
flea and claypool
21 Responses (last posting: Wed, Mar 26 2008)

hello again... this doesn't really have anything to do with techniques to do, but do anyone know where or how to find facts or bios of les claypool or flea.. and if so, does...
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Thu, Jan 10 2008
Bass synth
No Responses

Im thinkin of getting a Boss SYB-3 any suggestions on better pedals or how the Boss sounds?...
Adam
Mon, Dec 31 2007
Gibson or Fender
1 Response (last posting: Thu, Jan 10 2008)

Trying to deside on a new high end bass. I like both the Gibson thuderbird IV and the fender %1 Vintiage reissue (the Telebass in sunburst). What are your reviews?
danny
Fri, Aug 24 2007
blisters
2 Responses (last posting: Thu, Dec 27 2007)

iv got a big ass blister on my first finger and a gig in 2 days does anyone hav any good tips how to get rid of em ?
mac
Wed, May 23 2007
goin' fretless
1 Response (last posting: Tue, Dec 25 2007)

hey, i was wondering...if i want to go fretless, should i strip the frets on my current bass like jaco pastorius, buy a cheap new bass, or try to find a new neck for my Peavey...
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Mon, Dec 24 2007
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Fri, Dec 21 2007
That Doug Wimbish thing
No Responses

If you've seen the "New Dimensions" section of bassplayer.tv you will have noticed that weird record scratching sound that he gets from his bass. Do you know what he is doing...
DinosGR
Thu, Dec 13 2007
Good tuning Basses Or 5 strings?
1 Response (last posting: Tue, Dec 18 2007)

Hello Everyone!I usually tune my bass lower 1 or 2 tones and I make some drops sometimes(Drop C or B)The problem is that the strings bounch to the fretboard and make an unpleaseant...
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Tue, Dec 11 2007
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Sat, Sep 17 2005
which tune
9 Responses (last posting: Sun, Sep 2 2007)

what tuning should i have my bass set at for heavy metal?
robbie
Tue, Jul 12 2005
new bass.....
11 Responses (last posting: Sun, Sep 2 2007)

expecting experienced bassists to answer this....which is a better bass an epiphone goth thunderbird IV bass. or Peavey Millennium 5 AC BXP 5-String Bass?
deano
Thu, Nov 10 2005
6-string basses
10 Responses (last posting: Sun, Sep 2 2007)

I have a stupid problem but as I can't get over it myself I ask for help. I currently play a 5-string bass and am thinking about moving to a 6-string. my first question is...
Miranda
Sun, Jun 3 2007
metal bass
4 Responses (last posting: Sun, Sep 2 2007)

I've been playing bass for about 2 years now, but i've mostly played jazz. I'm joining a metal band soon though, and i wondered if anyone could tell me what to play. just roots,...
danny
Sun, Aug 12 2007
alternative tunings
2 Responses (last posting: Sun, Sep 2 2007)

does anyone know if A,E,B,D is a tuning and can anyone suggest any cool drop tunings
errol
Wed, Aug 29 2007
slap with rubber bands
No Responses

hi there.i've been using a three-finger technique combined with semi open fist slap for couple of years and it's really fun. My friend taught me that..the secret? put rubberbands...
Jutsu
Wed, Aug 29 2007
Super fast plucking
No Responses

I use this weird technique that allows me to play pretty fast, plucking wise. It involves using the fingers of the plucking hand like picks, similar to a flamenco technique but...
Tobias Baars
Mon, May 7 2007
Musicman Stingray
11 Responses (last posting: Sat, Aug 25 2007)

I dont know how all you feel but Stingrays seem to be great instruments.
rhonda
Mon, Aug 20 2007
pain in left wrist , and arm
No Responses

I started taking lessons and also got a new bass, I have been playing for almost two years and never had any pain before even after extended periods of play, I have very small...
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Sat, May 26 2007
Carpel Tunnel
2 Responses (last posting: Mon, Aug 20 2007)

i have carpel tunnel and i was think if theres any techniques thats i can use to get rid of it or what else can i do to avoid it when i am playing?
Drew Perry
Mon, Nov 3 2003
Any good bass songs?
29 Responses (last posting: Sun, Aug 19 2007)

i just got my first bass. and wanted to know if anyone had any good songs they could suggest
P Bass
Tue, May 8 2007
Getting a New Bass
9 Responses (last posting: Sun, Aug 19 2007)

I'm thinking about getting a new, pretty decent bass. I'm not too bad, and I want something that isn't too expensive. I hear that Fender P Basses actually aren't too bad, even...
juankavamo89
Sat, Aug 18 2007
Endurance and accuracy
1 Response (last posting: Sun, Aug 19 2007)

Hi, due to some injury I pick up my bass again about 5 days ago, and practice the three finger technique (Is my first time). I decide to develope a three finger picking exclusively,...
barrettmzd
Tue, Apr 17 2007
Getting rid of scraping sound when picking?
2 Responses (last posting: Mon, Aug 13 2007)

I've been playing bass for about a year and a half now, and I rather recently just started using a pick. I notice that when I play (especially faster songs), it sounds like I'm...
Mark
Wed, May 30 2007
Solo bass
2 Responses (last posting: Sun, Aug 12 2007)

I've found myself in a situation where I'm playing bass alone now. No band, no guitar buddies to jam with. What does an aspiring bassist do? Just work on technique? Improvise?...
chris
Mon, Jun 25 2007
beginner slapping
4 Responses (last posting: Fri, Aug 10 2007)

ive been playing bass for a couple of years but never tried any slap pop style playing. Does anyone know any songs with really simple slap and pop style playing to get me started?...
Bass-Dude
Sat, Jun 9 2007
Gibson Thunderbird IV
4 Responses (last posting: Thu, Aug 9 2007)

Anyone here know what the difference is between teh Gibson Thunderbird IV and the Epiphone Thunderbird IV? Quality? Is the Gibson Worth $1500 more?
danny
Mon, Aug 6 2007
effects
1 Response (last posting: Tue, Aug 7 2007)

does any one know or recomend any envelope filters or does any one know the one that flea uses ?
Lamar
Thu, Jul 26 2007
Advanced Books
1 Response (last posting: Sat, Aug 4 2007)

Can anyone tell me some advanced Bass playing books? I've been looking through and I've only found beginner bass players but I'm not a beginner, I'm probably around Intermediate...
Dave
Wed, Jul 25 2007
Reverse Finger Technique
1 Response (last posting: Sat, Aug 4 2007)

I am interested in any tips for including the back stroke of the finger tip in the right hand; i.e. we pluck the strings when we pull the string upward, toward our palm, but I...
Terry
Tue, Jul 31 2007
Finger Picking
No Responses

I am looking for any suggestions on good picking exercises. Amy suggestions? ...
Colin
Wed, Sep 20 2006
My slap sounds thin!!
5 Responses (last posting: Wed, Jul 18 2007)

I was just wondering if anybody else has a problem when they start to slap it sounds thinner and quieter than normal plucking? When I play I regularly alternate between the two...
Paul Haustead
Thu, Jun 21 2007
Clicking
1 Response (last posting: Thu, Jul 12 2007)

Hi Guys, I wonder if anyone can help. When i play live I can get a decent sound from my amp, however when my amp is Di-ed up to the Pa system, i can't get the required sound i...
Thrash-Bass
Tue, Jun 12 2007
String tunings/fingering techniques
2 Responses (last posting: Thu, Jul 12 2007)

Anyone else use different tunings? If so, what are they and why do you use them? Personally, I drop my E to C, my A to G, keep D the same, and tune G up to A (I'm pretty sure...
Scottie
Sat, Oct 15 2005
Jam
5 Responses (last posting: Mon, Jul 9 2007)

I just bought a beat up bass on the buss for five bucks from a kid who was fiending for some coke. I'm taking it as a sign of my destiny as a bass player. I'm really in to jamming,...
Mark
Tue, Jul 3 2007
Sitting position
No Responses

I was looking at stools the other day at Wal-Mart. They had two heights. One was about 26" tall and the other was about 32" or so. Is this one of those personal preference things...
Red
Thu, Mar 16 2006
Cliff Burton Technique?
5 Responses (last posting: Sat, Jun 23 2007)

Does anyone know any techniques Cliff Burton used? Or did he not use any? Thanks - Red.
Alan
Thu, Apr 21 2005
Marcus Millers Sig Bass
2 Responses (last posting: Fri, Jun 22 2007)

Hey, I just saw a video of marcus miller playing his main four string, and I noticed a metal bridge over the pickup closest to the neck, about where his wrist was when he was slapping....
beaglesbass
Fri, Jun 9 2006
JAMES JAMERSON!!!!
9 Responses (last posting: Thu, Jun 21 2007)

We all know the Wooten's Claypool's and Jaco's out there.No doubt they are nasty but i prefer hearing bassists like james jamerson and people like him. Of course Jamerson is also...
Mjordan
Tue, Feb 13 2007
Three-Finger Technique on Bass
7 Responses (last posting: Wed, Jun 20 2007)

I have been playing with three fingers since I started bass. But this technique is very hard to master. Here is a problem I have. I use my index finger, middle finger, and ring...
Mrwien
Fri, Jun 15 2007
First Bass Amp
No Responses

Hey, I am a quite inexperienced player atm, have played guitar for 2 years but never really got the hang of it. I've started playing bass about 3/4 a year ago, because we needed...
A.D.
Tue, Oct 25 2005
left hand thumb
6 Responses (last posting: Tue, Jun 12 2007)

Hi, I have read the book and my playing has improved very much. There is only one thing that is bothering me, when I move my left hand around the neck I can`t seem to get my...
Dmanlamius
Thu, Mar 22 2007
A few free tutorials
1 Response (last posting: Wed, Jun 6 2007)

Hey guys, my site has a few free tutorials on it. Basic finger walking stuff, as well as some slap and pop lessons etc. They seem to be doing really well on you-tube, so I hope...
hey there
Thu, Mar 15 2007
about how long should it take to do things
5 Responses (last posting: Sat, Jun 2 2007)

i was just wondering how long it took people to reach landmarks in their bass playing like being able to play certain things by a certain time i just want to know if im going...
danny
Thu, May 31 2007
jazz bass problems
1 Response (last posting: Sat, Jun 2 2007)

does anyoe else have any problems with a fender mexican jazz bass. when i slap the E it sounds lk its hitting the pickup or somthing like that im only 14 and not that expreiencd...
danny
Fri, Jun 1 2007
cool techniques
No Responses

does anyone know any cool techniques other than slap n hammer ons n stuff i want to get my bass playing more technical and does anyone recommend a envelope filter ?...
Lamar
Sat, May 12 2007
Slap
2 Responses (last posting: Fri, May 25 2007)

I've been trying to slap bass, I hit the strings with me thumb, and I'm not sure if it sounds like I'm slapping, cause I kinda doesn't sound like it too much, can someone help...
ARNIE
Thu, May 24 2007
ANY ADVICE ON BASS TAPPING?
No Responses

I met a guy who taught himself how to bass tap (like on a guitar), he taught me one technique and i can sort of do it. does any one have any advice? or other methods?...
Dan
Fri, Apr 30 2004
Begginer, looking to learn some cool stuff
7 Responses (last posting: Wed, May 16 2007)

I'm a begginer. I can play stuff, but pretty slowly, and pretty poorly. Anyone have any special ways to practice that will really help you improve? Or any cool techniques that...
ice
Wed, Apr 25 2007
rake or alternate when descending?
1 Response (last posting: Thu, May 10 2007)

I've checked out a lot of books and vids on this topic, players such as dave la rue and mark egan and books like funk fusion bass by jon liebman stress the importance of alternating...
Michael
Sun, Jul 30 2006
Jazz bass
4 Responses (last posting: Mon, May 7 2007)

Hey everyone iam currently a vocalist for a band however i have recently got bavk into my bass guitar and iam intersted in jazz bass techniques, so if anyone ahs any advice or...
Bass tabs Question
Tue, May 1 2007
berserker
No Responses

I need the tabs to the song berseker by love among freaks ...
zachatack
Mon, Apr 30 2007
Jammin with a Punk Band
1 Response (last posting: Tue, May 1 2007)

Ive been playin bass for about two years now. I've been jammin with my band lately. We mainly play punk rock stuff. When we're jammin, my guitarist is pretty unpredictable, but...
Lawrence
Fri, Sep 16 2005
ok i am a beginner on the bass
7 Responses (last posting: Wed, Apr 25 2007)

i just started bass what are the string names?(from thickest to smallest please)
Griffster
Sat, Apr 15 2006
Size of Hands?
8 Responses (last posting: Tue, Apr 24 2007)

Hi there everyone, I play a 6-string bass and was wondering about your opinions regarding the size of one hands. Do you think it matters or affects your playing ability? I...
Richard
Thu, Mar 22 2007
Keeping the thumb on the Pickup
3 Responses (last posting: Tue, Apr 24 2007)

I've been playing bass for a couple of months now and when I play I always keep my thumb on the pickup no matter what string I am playing on. Is it completely wrong to do that....
StooeyC
Tue, Apr 24 2007
Slap Bass Sound / Pedal Settings
1 Response (last posting: Tue, Apr 24 2007)

I've been into slap bass for years now, but never been into the technical side of amps. I have a Watson 50watt piece of crap, got a huge guitar stack too, but i've never known...
Stephanie
Thu, Apr 12 2007
What should I be learning through bass lessons?
1 Response (last posting: Thu, Apr 19 2007)

I've been taking bass lessons on and off for about a year with the same bass teacher. I like him as a person a lot but don't know if I'm getting the best tricks and tips from him....
Andrew
Sun, Dec 8 2002
Finger Technique
8 Responses (last posting: Thu, Apr 19 2007)

I have tried playing with my two fingers moving exactly perpendicular to the strings but am having problems. The problem stems from the middle finger being about 1cm longer than...
Kurly K
Tue, Jul 26 2005
Upright bass
4 Responses (last posting: Fri, Apr 6 2007)

Does anyone have suggestions for choosing an upright bass? Type of wood, age, model?
Pedro
Sun, Apr 1 2007
Need help
No Responses

Ive been playen bass for awhile now and theres one thing i cant figure out and it is how guys get a high pitch buzz to add a little somen to a song or solo i heard that it was...
spaivxx
Sun, Mar 25 2007
new bass player
No Responses

I am a guitarist who lives in a city with a definite lack of bass players. I well known in my area as a sort of shredder on the guitar, but today it seems everyone is a Steve Vai...
Stumpy
Sun, Sep 12 2004
Complete Beginner!
3 Responses (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

Hello - I'm from Scotland and have recently been roped into helping a friend out with his band, playing bass. The songs we are trying to practice on are pretty simple, Motorhead...
Neil
Sun, Aug 6 2006
Billy Sheehan technique.
1 Response (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

Found a video of Mr. Big playing Addicted to that Rush, and every since I've been trying to figure out how Billy does that. I'm not a hundred percent sure what the technique is...
Jesse
Sat, Jan 6 2007
Adrian Lambert's Technique
2 Responses (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

I've herad it was a three-finger pluck style, but I have a hard time beleiving that because it sounds lik two repetitive fingers. Can anyone help me? If its a three finger, how...
dbeaver
Mon, Sep 25 2006
behringer buzz
1 Response (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

I recently purchased a bx4410 with a bb115, got it home pluged it in and got noise (buzzing). there is a ground loop problem I think behringer missed.I isolated the foot switch...
Al
Mon, Nov 7 2005
technique
6 Responses (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

I can't help placing my thumb on the edge of the fret board while i'm finger picking my bass.. I'm trying to not do that because I see everyone else just slacking there hand playing...
pete
Wed, Nov 1 2006
bass tuning
6 Responses (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

how do you tune your bass and why, i am sick of the standard e a d g or b e a d help me my bass brothers.
dean
Wed, Oct 19 2005
victor wooten technique??
3 Responses (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

ive been playing bass, watching the videos and doing the lessons but i still don't know how on earth he does what he is doing any hints or tips???
Deni Watts
Tue, Jun 27 2006
finger speed
11 Responses (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

I have been playing bass for over a year now and I havnt gotten any faster, I have been trying to play some stuff that isnt that fast but everytime I try to speed up my hand starts...
bassist
Sun, Oct 30 2005
pick or fingers
13 Responses (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

hi i was just wondering what you guys reckon is better using a pick or fingers i can play pretty fast with my fingers but its hard but with a pick i find it much more easy ...
Upula C.
Sat, Mar 31 2001
Should I continue playing Bass??
47 Responses (last posting: Thu, Mar 15 2007)

Victor Wooten is a power house of techniques. He is really amazing. I wonder.....whats the point, I am 34 years old and never be able to play anything closer to that. I mean,...
ash
Mon, Mar 12 2007
amp settings for slap bass
No Responses

hey does any one know any good slap bass settings? cheers ash...
Waste of Paint
Mon, Feb 12 2007
a three part question
1 Response (last posting: Sun, Feb 18 2007)

1.) how can i get a nice low action on my Peavy Milestone BXP (modeled after a fender jazz bass) without getting fret buzz 2.) what are some techniques i can use to play betteer...
Mark
Sat, Jan 6 2007
Short scale bass
2 Responses (last posting: Fri, Feb 16 2007)

I am in a small praise band at my church and want to take up the bass. I've been playing the bass part on a keyboard. I had some classical guitar experience many years ago so...
Edwin
Sun, Dec 10 2006
Sore left hand thumb
6 Responses (last posting: Fri, Feb 2 2007)

The other day I made a change in practicing right hand speed. In stead of muting all strings (by covering all strings with the left hand) and just plucking the strings with the...
Zack Lawrence
Mon, Jan 29 2007
Slap
2 Responses (last posting: Fri, Feb 2 2007)

Hey, I have played bass for about two and a half years. I have pretty much made my own style for slapping, but I wanted to know how professionals do it. Can anyone give some advice?...
Mark
Fri, Jan 19 2007
playing position
3 Responses (last posting: Thu, Feb 1 2007)

I just got my first bass, a Yamaha RBX1l70. My question is does it matter if I rest my thumb on the j pickup or on the low end of the neck? I was told once that playing as close...
toast
Sat, Sep 9 2006
pinch harmonics
7 Responses (last posting: Thu, Feb 1 2007)

anybody got a decent technique for playing pinch harmonics or artificial harmonics while fingerpicking? i have been doing this for years but it remains incinsistent to a degree,...
Ieendude
Fri, Apr 21 2006
Is my Bass a POS?
5 Responses (last posting: Mon, Jan 15 2007)

Ive been playing for three months now on a bass my parents bought me at a pawn shop. "The slammer hammer" ive played other basses and the strings are much eaiser to press and get...
peter
Wed, Jan 10 2007
Nylons
No Responses

My new fretless has nylon strings how does that make you fell?...
Gerald
Wed, Jan 18 2006
Mwah of sorts
3 Responses (last posting: Mon, Jan 8 2007)

Saw Vic playing with the Mike Sterns Quartet recently, and during his solo he did this really intense mwah thing, looked like at the 3rd fret. And it's possible he was bending...
Fender
Tue, Nov 29 2005
Scale Patterns
5 Responses (last posting: Mon, Jan 8 2007)

Hey, i have been playing bass for about 2 years now. My problem is, i still dont know my scales. I figure out a peice completely by ear, then i remember what frets they are on....
jude
Fri, Oct 13 2006
how to slap[
3 Responses (last posting: Mon, Jan 8 2007)

while slapping which finger should i use index or the middle finger
BestBassistInABQ
Tue, Dec 5 2006
Thumb Rests.
2 Responses (last posting: Mon, Jan 8 2007)

Hello, I am on a quest for thumb rests for my jazz bass. I am looking for a thin thumb rest to place in-between the pick ups, exactly like Tim Commerford of Audioslave. Does anyone...
Jamie
Tue, Sep 27 2005
string names
6 Responses (last posting: Sat, Jan 6 2007)

Sorry for blank message. I play a 4-string but am curious about moving to 5-string. How is a 5-string tuned? (Thick-Small please)
LowB
Tue, Sep 26 2006
cirrus5
2 Responses (last posting: Wed, Jan 3 2007)

I just bought a pravey cirrus 5 used and would like some comments on this instrument be they praise or problems........thanks